Business Mailing List Marketing

I was on DigitalPoint forums last week and one post by a guy looking for a business partner caught my eye. It seemed like he was a hard-working guy looking to make a buck, but needed some capital to get something he could work with. So I contacted him and he seemed to know what he was doing and had a business plan of sorts. So I agreed to work with him and my involvement would mostly be to provide some money for domain, hosting, forum script license, content generation, and promotion. The estimated cost would be $500-700 and I would be repaid  with 60% of the income until my investment was repaid, then my percentage would drop to 40%.

To make a long story short, while the guy seemed very friendly and open, I started wondering because there were a number of things he was not telling me, even after I asked him specific questions. "Who are you buying this from? What is their web site? Can I see where they are advertising their service? Can I see examples of their work?" While I was asking these questions I did move ahead with some items and bought a domain which we both agreed upon (a couple hours of my time when into the research and distilling a list of about 3,500 possibilities. I also got a hosting account and despite my not getting all the details I asked for, I paid someome $120 for a vBulletin forum license, which new costs $195. My partner was pushing me to pay someone else $350 for a forum posting service (4,000 posts) but I bawked at paying without knowing what we were paying for. I was assured that it was ok, but now we are talking about considerable money and my partner showed signs at being very new at this - I was mostly afraid he was being taken advantge of.

Then he said the provider was not able to offer the paid posting service at this time and told me to pay someone else $200 for about the same service. Still no details on the provider. Meanwhile I also wanted to make sure he got the license for the forum transfered to his name. He assured me that this had been done, but when I paid for the form license, I requested that the seller use an email address I had set up that would go to me and my partner. That never happened. After calling vBulletin and getting some information I was able to determine that not only did my partner own the license, but he had owned it for some time before we became partners. At this point all the deflections of my questions and the assurances that everything was fine was clearly not differences in culture (I thought he was from India, but now I think he is in Romainia) but something not entirely honest and perhaps just an outright scam. I changed the hosting account access and filed a dispute with the "seller" of the vBulletin license whose first response was surreal and second laughable, but he did issue a refund. I don't know if he was a partner in crime or the same person.

I was lucky. I have a forum domain I don't want or need, but I am thinking about using it to make a site after all. I also have a hosting account I don't need and I will just let that go away. So I am out only about $20 but about 2 days of screwing around with this person.

The things that saved me from losing some serious money were that I kept asking questions to get some verification of what I was being told. I never should have paid for the forum license, but at that point I was giving him the benefit of the doubt and I didn't mind the low risk for that amount of money.

The other thing I had on my side is experience and the ability to do some Internet investigating. I did this when first talking with this person, but I didn't find too much beyond some banned forum accounts that he had been using. Yes, not a good sign, but I thought I was dealing with some dumb kid that was still learning.

But my investigating into the forum license gave me the proof I needed that I was being scammed. He doesn't know how I figured it out and I'm not going to post it so he can't learn from his mistakes. I'm going to post some of our email exchanges below in case it helps someone else to avoid him and others like him. He seems to be using many usernames and email addresess so it may not lead everyone that needs to find it to this information. But if just one person avoids this scam or one like it then it's worth my effort. Like I always say, don't trust ANYONE you meet on the Internet.

---Quote (Originally by MossRosa)---
Hi Christian

I notice you have made a reply on my thread ,regarding investing partner for my business , Its not quite simple to explain right here on the Pms , if you dont mind contacting me on skype/gtalk .?

You can reach me on gtalk - akasperskyt
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-----Original Message-----
From: Arjjun Tilak [mailto:arjjuntillak@gmail.com]
Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011
To: christian
Subject: MossRosa From Digital Point

Hi Christian

I have found you replied on my thread   , So i am giving you short information about my project  and upon showing your information , I am ready to give you my full informations ,

Basic Outline Of the Partnership I am Looking into to Join Hands with you :

So , Basically , I am looking for  partner regarding developing a forum.The forum link can be given upon showing your interest .I have plenty of ideas on how to market /promote our forum , income sources for our forum etc.All i need is an investor right now , Investment is 500$-600$ required..Investor invest once in life long for the forum.I take care of maintainence etc.I will also take care of earning from the forum and marketing/developing the forum as i have my own ways and ideas .

Benefits of an investor :

1. You invest money and take rest , weekly we share the revenue 60/40 life long .

2. No need to do any additional work for the forum .After the first week , simply expect a regular income and you focus on your own job .

3. I can do all technical works , seo works , promotion works , marketin works with my own time and money , you still recieve a weekly stable income .

4. Our income can be as much as $3000 from the 5th month if i execue each and every plan of mine in a right way .It means a stable 1500$ + income weekly for you after 5 months , doing nothing .

Few of my strategies or plans to make our forum sucess and different from others :



How the Forum is Planned to Make us $$ :

·        Google Adsense .
·        Info Links intext .
·        Affliate Marketing With Click Bank , Web Hosts .
·        Paid premium Membership(after 2 months)
·        Paid Image Signatures Subscrition(after 2months)
·        Paid Article Marketing CategorySubscrition(After 2 months)
·        Paid Video Marketing Category Subscrition(After2 months)

Rest of the In-formations like "Is Sucess Guranateed ? ""When Will income start and how much ? "About ROI Guaranteed " "How safe you can invest ?" .Everything I can explain you in details in Chat , Thanks  Waiting for you :)
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Ok, you should have the hosting account information. The domain should be pointing to the hosting account. Yes, http://www.nnnnnnnnnforums.com/ is working.

Please confirm that the vb license is valid and that it can be transferred to a new owner. Then let the owner know that I will be paying for it. When you tell me I will send the money to the seller and you should be able to get started. Tell me a little more about the content you are buying, if you don't mind. Does the seller have a web site or forum post? :-)

I am behind in my work so I will not be replying to emails quickly, but let me know if you need anything else?

Thank you,
Chris
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Hi Christ ,

Yes , the domain is right now pointing to Hostgator .Good !And yes the Vbulletin License is valid and can be transferred to a new owner , So , yes , we can buy it , and are you good at installing scripts or shall i install it on our server ? The owner is right now online too , So if you send him now , yes we are getting started right now as we will get the script right now .So , you can pay him $120 here --- >hadczypop.filip@yahoo.com , and please inform me if you have done it , so i can get the script and get started right away .

And coming to  Contents :

The forum at the starting will be empty with 0 posts and no people would like to post on an empty forum (unless paid) and I know the Bad effects of getting copied contents from yahoo answers or so and so , So , I am hiring a well known team of Forum posters who will be posting unique content on our forum and will start the job in 24 hours after payment .And according to my budget and plan , I assume we should allocate 350$ for buying contents , as contents are important component to get  started , So if you are ready to pay for contents also , you can pay here : nathf15@hotmail.co.uk , and let me know , and if you are good at instaling scripts and if you want  i shall send you the script , or I can install it , No problems

Thanks .
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I will leave it to you to install and set up the forums. If you have problems you can contact Hostgator support and if they have problems or don't want to help let me know.

Please let me know more about "who" is providing the content and what exactly we are buying, if you don't mind? :-)

Thank you,
Chris
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Hi

Yes , I can explain you about contents in detailed manner in case you did not understand my previous emails :)I had prefer I can clearly explain you about the contents if we can have a chat , so that it will be easy for you to understand .Is it possible we can chat for 5 minutes regarding the contents which you did not understand clearly .
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I understand what you said before, but I would like to know the details. Are you hiring a company? Are you just hiring some friends? Who is getting paid and what do we get in return? 2 people making 175 posts? 100 people making 7 posts?

Sorry to be such a bother with my questions. :-(

Thank you,
Chris
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Yeah , No problem .

I am neither hiring a company nor my friends .I am hiring some professional team (not company) , a team who can do good forum postings , I am hiring them and in return of 350$ , we are getting  4k - 5k + Posts with 200+ users to make the forum look more attractive .If we are making the payment now , the work would be started from 24 hours after the payment ,is why i prefer you to make payment now  , so we can move faster :)

============================================
-----Original Message-----
From: Arjjun Tilak [mailto:arjjuntillak@gmail.com]
Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2011
To: christian
Subject: Do not send payment for content

Hi

I just had a chat with the team manger where we are going to buy contents , he have told me this week , we can not take the project , So do not send any payment for the contents , I mean do not send 350$ for contents , Just want to inform you

I will manage to get an other team to process this order of buying contents .

Thank you .
Regards .
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Hi Christ

Actually , the other team had been busy with other projects and have told me they could not take our job right now , So I Told you not to pay for contents to them as it would be a slow process .

So ,I Found an other team willing to take our project right now and it is a reputed team in India , So i think we  can deal with them .

The team is well reputed in India .

The team can post unique and Quality contents .

The team can keep up the time frame .

But , The team can take only Short order now only for 200$ , They Provide us 4k Contents for 200$ with in very short time frame .

So , if you think we can deal with them , Please  send 200$ to arunthangavel@gmail.com , So that we can get started right away .

Thank you

Please feel free to ask me any queries if you have in mind .
============================================
Hi Arjjun,

arunthangavel may be fine, but I could only find messages about him selling web design and graphic services. So that makes me a little uncomfortable. I don't care if he is hiring someone else, but I want to make sure he will be responsible for making sure the quality is good. And getting 4k posts in a short time makes me wonder how they are created? Is there a sample of the work they have done for others?

If they are going to be creating "spun" content, using some kind of automated script, I don't think you want that do you? I don't think I do, but I don't know how well it can work both for SEO and also for looking bad to visitors when they come to the site.

I agree that his feedback looks good, but I would still like to know more and get some answers to my questions. Would you rather I ask him myself? I will if you like, otherwise I will stay out of it and let you handle it.

It is late here and I have to go to bed now, will look for your message in the morning

Oh, no word from the guy with the vb license yet...? I see the forums have not been installed yet.

Thank you,
Chris
============================================
Hi Chris

Sorry for that :)

Arunthangavel is fine , He has team , so he can make 4k posts in shorter time , and he ensure quality and good content as i am also 100% aware of that copied or spun contents effect on the forum .I am also not sure if he is doing it himself or hiring a team ,but he has a good team , and i will contact you tommorow morning with complete details regarding this .and regaring script , I have got the script ,I am yet to install it as i was busy looking for good content providers and end up with Arunthangavel .So , I will be installing the script now .:)

Thank you
============================================
Hi Arjjun,

No problem. Thanks for installing the script. Did the owner transfer the license to you? He has to email vb and tell them to transfer it to your name.

Thank you,
Chris
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Hi Chris

How are you today ?

Yes , He have transferred the license to me :)

It is my duty to work for it :)

So , the forum is set now  , and regarding the forum contents , yes with pleasure you can contact him on Skype -  singhisking698 and en-quire .I asked him about gtalk - he usually does not use gtalk , You can reach him on skype .
But , otherwise , I myself have consulted a lot with him , he has a good team and they are basically designers but they can also work on forum postings , and Unique contents Guaranteed .So , No problem , But still if you want you can consult him on skype .

And i am very eager to start the works ;)

So , if you think we can hire their team

You can transfer 200$  here -  > arunthangavel@gmail.com .

Once done , let me know So that I can insist them of the payment and they can start working  .Or if you have any more queries , Please feel free to ask me .

Thank you :)
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Hi Arjjun,

Yes, I got your emails. I am waiting to hear back from arunthangavel. I will let you know when I do.

By the way, did you change the password on the hosting account? I just tried to log in but it didn't work.

Can you please send it to me?

Thank you,
Chris
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Hi Chris

Yes , the hosting Password is  nnnnnnnnnnn .

Actually , As i have stated in my last email - he would not respond to emails , and use that email only for paypal purposes.I , Have talked with him quite much to know about their team  ,if you still want to contact the team manager , you can contact them on skype , Let me know if you have any queries .I hope - we can move faster Chris , :)

Thank you

Please feel free to ask me for any queries .
============================================
Hi,

I tried the password a couple of times, but it is not working for me.

Chris
============================================
Hello Chris ,

I think some problem arised in password , Did you request a change in password to hostgator ?The hosting account is in your control right ?Then , please request them to change and reset the password for the hosting panel .Is it possible we can have a chat now .

Thank you
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[ Once I got the FTP password reset I was able to inspect the forum files that were installed. He installed the forum, but then did NO configuration for at all. For someone so eager to start working on things that made no sense to me. He didn't even change the default name of the forum to match the domain we got.

I got some information that I used to search in Google and I discovered some pages that clearly showed he was not being honest with me. That was it. I contacted him with Gtalk chat and told him I was on to him and we were "done". I then filed a PayPal dispute. If it turned out he did buy a vBulletin license, then the seller should be able to prove that happened. If not, I wanted my money back...! ]
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Hi Chris

What happened man ?What information were you to talking about  ?

I am guarantee you by a screen shot or Through team viewer , That we have got the license of the software .

And what makes you say this Chris "You and I are done "

Am very sorry to hear this , and my eagerness to develop the forum is going nowhere ?

Let me hear from you - What steps you had like to take then now and I shall move accordingly .

Thanks
============================================
-----Original Message-----
From: service@paypal.com [mailto:service@paypal.com]
Sent: Monday, November 28, 2011
To: christian
Subject: PayPal dispute: Item not received PP-001-569-600-781

Dear Christian Nielsen,

You have opened a dispute for the payment you made to Filip Hadczy-Pop on
Nov 27, 2011 (Transaction 4GW31142MF383433Y) indicating that you did not
receive the item you purchased.

----------------------------------------------------------------
Transaction details
----------------------------------------------------------------
Seller's Name: Filip Hadczy-Pop
Seller's Email: hadczypop.filip@yahoo.com
Transaction Amount: -$120.00 USD
================================
Hi,

I am the person that paid you for a VB license to be transferred to Arjjun. In my payment I requested that you send the information about the license to an address I had set up for him and myself.

You did not use that email address. He won't provide proof that there was any license transferred and I have filed a dispute at PayPal to get a refund.

If you did send a license to Arjjun, then also send me the information and I will cancel the dispute. Otherwise, I want money back.

Thanks,
Chris Nielsen
============================================
From Buyer - Nielsen Technical Services

11/28/2011 15:46 CST

This person was paid for a forum license that was to be send to an email in the payment message. The email goes to me and someone I thought was a "partner". I did not get the message and the "partner" did not provide the information. I don't know if this is a scam or a screw up, but I did not receive anything and want a refund. I will be contacting the seller to know I have filed this dispute.

Thank you,
Chris Nielsen
==============
From Buyer - Nielsen Technical Services
11/28/2011 16:19 CST

Here is an email I sent to the seller and his reply. It makes no sense to me and I now think the seller and my "partner" are one in the same:

-----Original Message-----
From: Filip Hadczy-Pop [mailto:hadczypop.filip@yahoo.com]
Sent: Monday, November 28, 2011
To: christian@nielsentech.com
Subject: Re: Refund for non-delivery

This is what Arjun said:

"I have transferred the complete license to the party contacting me on skype ,but still you have made a mess which i dont like ,, selling a vbulletin license for 120$ is a real hot offer for you which i sold because i dont have enough time to manage with it , but you like to mess with me this way , then i will cancel the license and once the party who bought the license trasfer back the license to me i wil grant a full refund "

[ This message from the seller made no sense to me, but I got the idea of what was behind it being sent. Is this from Arjun or the seller? Are they both the same person? ]
========================================
From: Chris Nielsen <christian@nielsentech.com>
To: hadczypop.filip@yahoo.com
Sent: Monday, November 28, 2011
Subject: Refund for non-delivery

Hi,

I am the person that paid you for a VB license to be transferred to Arjjun. In my payment I requested that you send the information about the license to an address I had set up for him and myself.

You did not use that email address. He won't provide proof that there was any license transferred and I have filed a dispute at PayPal to get a refund. If you did send a license to Arjjun, then also send me the information and I will cancel the dispute. Otherwise, I want my money back.

Thanks,
Chris Nielsen
===============
From Seller - Filip Hadczy-Pop 11/28/2011 16:28 CST
This is turning into a mess. I will deal with the person to whom i sold the license directly, Thank you!

From Seller - Filip Hadczy-Pop 11/28/2011 16:29 CST
Arjjun Tilak: "This is getting mess , I would deal with the person to whom i sold the license , Thank you"

A Refund was issued.
============================================
Hello Christian Nielsen,

This email confirms that your dispute with Filip Hadczy-Pop is now closed. Either you have reached a resolution with the seller or the dispute has been open for more than 20 days.

Thank you,
PayPal
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